Will Rewards

[WorkingMan]

Just finished reading Donar's Hammer and had a question about Will awards. It does not stat so, but I infer that the Will awards apply to all players for meeting or failing at a particular task. If the players are using the Troop (Troup) Style play, does that mean every character the player has control over gains Will as well or just their main character?

[Gustav]

Award will to those who deserves it. Sounds simpler than it is I guess. I say that anything that would make a major boost in someones self confidence awards will. By your own actions or someone's nearby actions.

I would award will to all characters who took part or were directly related to the task. In troup style, I would do the same, as long as the secondary characters tag along and play a part in succeeding with the task they will gain will.

For smaller tasks I might award will only to the character(s) whose direct actions made the completion of the task possible. Other characters that are affected by the completion of the task might gain half the will perhaps.

Examples
The characters take and secure an important terrain feature, lika a hill - Everyone gets will.

One character defeats an enemy talent in hand-to-hand figthing. Only that charcater gains will. If this charcter is a very potent long time adversary that the group has hunted for a long time I would award everyone will, but perhaps not to the same extent.

[WorkingMan]

Gustav, thanks for the quick reply. Ok, that seems very workable.

On a related question, how volitile is Will? Does it fluctuate greatly during a session? Looking at Donar's Hammer, the events all take place within a very short period of time; there is not time to rest to recover Will. This leaves the various objectives, defeating enemy Talents and rolling 10's on Talents to gain Will. Not having played a session yet, it doesn't seem like enough. If the charcaters stack up on Hyperstats and Hyperskills they may only be spending points in Contests of Wills so that may offset matters to even it out.

I guess what I'm trying to find out is how precious these Will points are as to best advise new players on how to manage that resource.

BTW, the archive boards were very helpful in learning more about when Will is risked and spent.

[Shane Ivey]

You're right, recovering Will naturally, so to speak, pretty much happens between adventures. It can vanish fast when Talents start using their powers against each other. (Which is something the Allies figured out early on -- and which explains why their training to use guns instead wherever possible was so successful in the "Twilight of the Gods" during the Battle of the Bulge, against Ubermenschen who considered it a point of honor to defeat enemy Talents using their powers.)

[WorkingMan]

The Will resource is one the hardest things to get over, for me. I'm not a fan of superhero games where there is a power resource. It doesn't seem to work given the comics the games are based on.

Having said that, I think it is perfect for Godlike and would not change it. It is needed to help bring to life that gritty reality that the game portrays. Will is completely in-tune with the flavor of the default setting. I hope I can convey that aspect properly to the other players.

[Gustav]

I guess what I'm trying to find out is how precious these Will points are as to best advise new players on how to manage that resource.

This depemds a lot on what kind powers you have.

If you have a power that only affects yourself and cannot be used to attack or otherwise affect others you will only loose will when failing an activiation roll or in a contest of will when someone else uses a power against you. With a few HD or WD you'll will rarlely fail any activation roll so you wont really need to consider will points unless confronted by another talent.

If you have a power that affect others (Harm frinst) and you want to be able to attack other talents you need to save on your will points.

If you have a power that not only risk will points buy uses will points (like Ace) ever time you activate it you should consider when and why you use your power.

Another thing to bear in mind is that powers that fail often (i.e only 2-3 dice in it) drain more will than you gains since you often fail your activation roll. While having a few HD/WD for an automatic success normaly drains no will but can be a will gainer if you have a few ND as well.

Most of the times characters have run out of will during play for me are in contests of will. Most players become conservative in using will points when they are running low from failed activation rolls.

If the charcaters stack up on Hyperstats and Hyperskills they may only be spending points in Contests of Wills so that may offset matters to even it out.

I am pretty sure you risk will when using any power, hyperskills and hyperstats as well as miracles.

Personally I don't appreciate that you can gain will from hyperstat and hyperskill rolls since you roll both power dice and stat/skill dice (often a large pool) resulting in a high percentage of successes and many natural tens. I.e a will gainer.

Read my thought about an alternate rule for gaining will here:
http://www.arcdream.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1106

[WorkingMan]

Based on a comment by Shane on the thread Gustav provided a link to:

But yeah, it'll probably be easier to just use Will risks and awards for miracles, not hyperstats and hyperskills.

I think I'm going to lean this way to start and see how players like it. This would make the instantly visible to other Talents, but I think that adds to the tension of any mission.

[Gustav]

Hyperstats count as always on so anyone with hyperstats is always visible as a talent to other talents.

I think it's a good thing to use the rule that only miracles gain will.

During one of my first Godlike games I ran one ofthe player characters had hyperstat coordination. I dont remember how many die but probably 3-4. Coordination happens to be one of the most used stats in conjunction woth skills during combat. Most of the time he rolled 9-10 die. 3 in coordination, 4 in hypercoordination and a few die in rifle or whatever.

He never lost any will due to failed rolls and rolled a natural ten quite often. He became loaded with will pretty fast while all the charcaters with harm 4d or whatever came out pretty much witout net gain or loss. After that I started to think of changing the rule, it feelt unbalanced that hyperstat/hyperskill charcters should much easily gain will.

In a high will point game where you can afford to buy more dice (8-10) in your miracles the difference would be less but in the standrad 25 point Godlike game I think the difference is unfair.

Another reason behind the mechanic I wrote in a post in my link is that you with the normal rules for gaining will(success and a natural ten) are gainig more will the better you are. Since the will costs to rise stats/skills miracles are constant that means that the guy with more die gets better faster. That felt kind of backwards.

[WorkingMan]

I see exactly what you are saying, Gustav. I understand the reasoning behind the mechanic you discussed. I think that is the game-player in us. We want a level playing field so that the players with skill can rise to the top.

But the mechanic as written in the game is also in keeping with the setting. Characters become more and more confident as they user their powers in fantastic ways. They really come to believe they are Godlike. This I think will lead to intersting role-playing situations. Characters with Hyperstats only will be forced to find other methods for gaining Will: defeating other Talents or saving lives, both motivations that lead to good role-playing.

Of course this is me talking having only read the material to this point. We will start playing next week if schedules permit.

[Hobbie]

That is a good point Gustav. I'll have to rethink some will rewards.

Hobbie

[Gustav]

I think that is the game-player in us

To some extent for game balance like to make it fun and possible for all players to develop their characters further, yes. But also to avoid that you gain will from dice that aren't powers, with that I mean normalstat dice in conjunction with hyperstats and hyperskill.

Characters become more and more confident as they user their powers in fantastic ways

Yes they do but, do you get more self-esteem to complete a task the first time or the hundreth? I say the first time. The same goes for a difficult contra an easy task, right. With a lot of dice in your pool most tasks would be easy hence less I don't think you should get the same improvement in Will.

I modelled my rule after the way I look at will, as a talent extension of normal selfconfidence. So I asked myself at what situations do people get a will boost.

They really come to believe they are Godlike.

I think they will bite the dust pretty quickly with such an attitude. The ‹bermensch do just that and see what happens to them most of the time - they are taken out by a normal bullet.
In a gritty low point Godlike game talents will quickly learn that they might be able to do a little bit more than an ordinary man but the world and the war are much larger than him. That is how I interpret the world of Godlike.

[WorkingMan]

Gustav, your insight into the game is proving very helpful. Thanks for all your comments and suggestions. It's nice to know the game is supported by such knowledgeable players.

[Gustav]

Wow, thanks! Guess I've been around this forum and the old one for a while. I'm just happy to help, and all these discussions are good for me too, they give me new insights and ideas as well.

[Gustav]

[/quote]They really come to believe they are Godlike

Discussed this with a fellow gamer of mine, actually the person who introduced me to Godlike the first time.

Even if the talents them self maybe not look at them self as incarnation of semi-gods, or at least shouldn't look at them self that way if they want to survive in the world of Godlike, everone around them might think of them as kind of Godlike.

This could lead to nice roleplaying situaitons when the players commander demand the near impossible because he thinks the talents are "little tanks" and can do just anything. The same for the general grunt who believes that the talents should be able to help in all and every situation. Demanding more of the talents than they can deliver: Failing to help, the grunts will loose faith in the talents abilities etc.